From what I understand the booster does not make your brakes better it just makes them easier to apply. So if you goal is to make the car stop better in panic situation this is not the solution. What happens during panic situations? Do your rear wheels lock up first?

 

The car stops, braking seems even front to rear, it just takes a lot of leg effort... typical of manual brakes. Hoping power brakes will augment my leg effort as it seems to require more of that now in my 70s.

 

Complete waste of time going to power brakes. A set of EBC red pads will plant your teeth into the dash with very little foot pedal.

ex-Global West GM
1991-1995

 

Truth! I put the EBC reds on mine recently and it is night and day. I was shocked at how much better the car stops now.

 

I also have a 1966 Mustang coupe, 289 with a 4 speed toploader. I did the same disc brake conversion you did and fitted a Master Power Brakes booster BM15201-1. It was compatible with the Z Bar and it was a straightforward installation. A couple of years later I fitted Porterfield D11 pads and rear shoes, recommended and supplied by Open Tracker, which are an upgrade over the pads supplied with the disc brake conversion. As I fitted the booster at the same time as doing the disc brake conversion I can`t comment on the merits of booster vs no booster once the disc brake conversion was done, but I fitted the booster on the basis that I could not see how fitting a booster would be detrimental, and it might prove beneficial. However, there was a very obvious improvement in braking when I switched to Porterford pads/drums.

 

Like it has been said..... often..... a booster won't make the car stop any quicker, it'll just require less pedal effort. Address the deficiencies in your brake system, whether it be poor friction materials, improper rear brake adjustment, lack of a residual valve in the rear circuit, improperly sized master cylinder piston, etc. A stock K-H 4-piston disc/drum system will plant your lips on the windshield when properly installed.

 

Manual everything on my car, and my 15.5 year old daughter had, and still has, no problem driving it. Well, the only problem she has is Dad planted in the passenger seat while she drives and there are no other seats available for friends or other relatives.

 

Before giving up on a stock manual 4 piston K-H system invest about $100 on a set of ebc redstuff pads and have a brake shop true up the rotors to make sure they are flat.

Many many people here are using the ebc products and I can’t recall a single dissatisfied user. They will give a substantial upgrade in braking performance vs. stock OEM brake pads at a reasonable price.

Z

 

I have manual discs with a 15/16" master. Works great. For a while I was using a 1" master. Pedal pressure was significantly more and much shorter pedal travel. When I had a pickup truck pull right out on front of me with that wheel cylinder, believe me I had NO problem locking up all 4! Adrenaline is great stuff.

 

Adrenaline is great stuff.

And free!

 

Again, If you are weakly, no strength in your legs, a booster is a must. A reasonably healthy person does not need a booster.
I guess it kinda boils down to our learning. If you want to achieve, you put effort into it when you are able.
Then others want to slack off ,use a method to not have to exert energy, thoughts or methods. Very common today.

 

Personally I don't notice any difference with pedal effort whether I'm driving my Mustang (non-power), Honda Civic or Acura RDX.

 

Besides the common misconception that adding a booster will improve braking performance, I don’t understand why so many folks crap on the idea. I drove my car with manual brakes for 15 years. Worked great. I added a booster and they still work great, but I like the feel more. That’s enough reason for me to add the booster to my daughter’s car. Not because she lacks the muscle, but because I believe it will enhance driving enjoyment.

 

Besides the common misconception that adding a booster will improve braking performance, I don’t understand why so many folks crap on the idea.

It might have something to do with taking a nice simple car and making it complicated on the misconception that braking performance will improve.

One may like the “feel” of a power brake system. However that’s not the reason most people give for wanting to change to a power assist braking system. 9 times out 10 people say they want power brakes so the car will “stop better”. Which is total hogwash.

Z

 

I did a disc swap in 1992, roughly 430,000 miles ago and never found a need to power assist. If it's going to stop, it'll cover the same distance with or without power. There's a lot more places that $$ can be better spent for upgrades, safety and improved performance.

 

My wife and I both drive our '66, and we opted for KH power brake kit that wasn't much more money than a manual kit. The brake pedal feels really good and stops the car quickly. According to the forum manual discs feel good and stop well too. Do whatever makes you happy. It's odd to me there's so much backlash against power brakes.

 

The brake pedal feels really good and stops the car quickly. According to the forum manual discs feel good and stop well too. Do whatever makes you happy. It's odd to me there's so much backlash against power brakes.

Good for you. You're lucky.
Most of what we tackle here on the VMF with regard to adding power brakes to 65/66 cars is the tech-assist required to make
the usually crappy boosters supplied in kits, work.
(or some cobbled-together booster/master cylinder setup that the wannabe brake engineer/owner is having issues with)

And from that you get the "backlash against power brakes".......

You know what, by the same token you have folks on here that want the total experience of driving a Mustang "in the raw"...... they want a completely stock Mustang to feel that they're
driving it the way it was back in the day. That's nice, but to me not too realistic when after a few miles they realize they're driving a 55+ year old car, with all its faults and shortcomings, etc.

I don't lump adding power brakes into the important upgrade category though. To me a power brake system on a 65/66 "solves a problem" that wasn't there to begin with on the car.


ex-Global West GM
1991-1995

 

This topic grabbed my interest. With the new high hp powerplant going in I was looking to get a vacuum canister (assuming I won't have good vacuum) and booster. The fronts already have Wilwood disc setup and when I get the 9" in the rear I can convert to disc. I've never had any problems with the manual system before so now after reading this thread it seems as long as I have everything working properly with good pads the manual setup will be fine...

 

GT289, that's fair. Back when I initially installed my brakes I had some problems, and I reached out to you through a message to pick your brain a little. The message started with "You seem to be the champion of EBC brake pads, and a wealth of knowledge on brakes." I believe that line still holds true and would defer to your opinion over my own.

I did get my soft pedal issue sorted through adjusting the rear drums properly and bleeding the system extensively. I can't speak for all the users on here with issues, but in my case it was completely the installer, me, that caused the soft pedal issue. The EBC red pads, at your recommendation, do work really well in my car, and they might be the answer for guys looking to stop their cars a little faster.

 

Thanks for that.
A lot of the "I upgraded from drum brakes and feel I need a power booster" deal is disc brake's lack of servo action.
Discs just feel "dead" in comparison, particularly with crappy friction materials. I suggest upgrading the friction to level the playing field in brake feel and overall performance.

ex-Global West GM
1991-1995

 

I have a C-4 trans but here my take on power vs non. I did the SSBC manual conversion (KH) and wasn't happy with the effort it took (bad hips) so I added the SSBC rear disc and added their power booster and MC (there is a slug in the rod hole because the booster pin is shorter than the push rod). I found it was still crap and after research I found (from what I read from other sources so please don't be upset if I am wrong or you have different info) that the pedal ratio should be changed when going to disc, I found a company that sells brake pedals with the pin welded in a different location and so on. I found and bought a push rod with a bracket to relocate the pin and was finally happy with my brakes. BTW when going to power you need to replace or I have heard of others somehow bending the brake light switch because of the pressure it actives or something like that I just know my brake lights came on very late until I replaced the switch. I'm not sure if you have done any of this but if I had of known about the pads listed above I probably would've changed the pedal ratio and put those pads on.

Good luck!

 

Bad hips; that sounds like a legitimate reason to go with power brakes.

Yeah, we see many similar debates here and it appears some people misunderstand our advice. We're not saying installing expensive and modern "upgrade" kits are bad or stupid. We're saying they are typically unnecessary. For example, I often see and hear the following:

Myth: Based on what I see on car TV shows, I need a rack and pinion and coilovers to make my classic car drive and steer well
Reality: Your classic car will drive and steer quite nicely with a properly restored and adjusted factory steering and suspension system. If you will be racing the car on curvy tracks, sure, go with coilovers and a rack and pinion. But you don't really need all that on most street cars. The car TV shows install all that stuff because it's donated as a promotion and not because it's the best option.

Myth: I need four wheel discs to make my classic car stop well.
Reality: Rear brakes are mostly along for the ride. The front brakes do most of work. Your classic car will stop quite well with only front discs, or even front drums, as long as everything is properly restored and adjusted. If you want to race on curvy tracks, sure, throw on some rear discs, but you won't need them on most street cars. The car TV shows install rear discs because they are donated as a promotion and not because they are necessary.

Myth: Based on what I see on car TV shows, I need a Coyote swap to make my classic Mustang fast.
Reality: You can get more than enough power from a 1960s Ford V8. Options are infinite and range from mild to completely wild. I've never heard of anyone who installed a 408 stroker and said, "This sucks, I should have done a Coyote swap". The 408 will almost always have more power than the car can put down to the pavement. And, if it doesn't, stroke a big block! The car TV shows do Coyote swaps because the conversion kits are donated as a promotion and not because it's the best option.

Of course, if someone really wants to install coilovers, a rack and pinion, rear disks and a Coyote into their classic Mustang, cool. More power to them. My points here are that all too often people believe without those mods the car will be a floaty, boaty dog that doesn't turn which is simply not the case.

 

And you don’t need R&P and coil overs to go fast on a track either.

There are few things more satisfying than passing 6 figure cars on the track and then watching them harumph when they come to check out the car and find 60 year old parts underneath [emoji38]

Mark

 

I have a Maverick MC too, and used it for manual and power. Worked great both ways. It's a dream in it's current configuration, even though I'm apparently weak, lazy and wrong with my Mustang Steve Power brake conversion,

 

I framed house's for over 35 years and these days need all the help I can get stopping the Mustang. I just talked to Hydrotech again today on the details of my new hydro boost system. Don't judge someone until you have walked a mile in they're shoes. Worst case scenario, you'll be a mile way and still have their shoes!

 

I managed to fit power brakes along with the zbar. I built custom linkage rods out of threaded rod to make it work.

 

I'm sure your autocross needs are very different than my own street use requirements. I hope you find something that works for you.
One day soon, I will address the stopping distance with high performance pads. I don't understand why people have a hard time grasping the concept that pedal effort and stopping distance are two different issues and must be addressed individually,